The Sound of One Hand Clapping?
20 09 2006In publishing this post, I'm going to do a few things:
- Add to the mountain of "news" around the Islam issue in this country.
- Air some half-baked ideas I've got.
- Open myself up for possible abuse and threats.
- Hopefully learn from my readers through their comments on my thoughts.
I don't really understand where the government is going with its efforts to engage the "Islamic Community". I don't even think there is an "Islamic Community"; maybe there are "Islamic communities". It seems the government is talking to people who are mainstream, who are not involved in the terrorist atrocities and near-misses we've seen in this country. What's the point in that? Didn't we make the same mistake by not talking to Gerry Adams in the first place, instead putting it off for decades? And on the other hand, I see some logic in what they're doing. Maybe they're trying to dry up the water around the terrorist fish. Maybe if the mainstream community could be persuaded to seek out and reject the terrorists in their midst, we'd have less of a problem. As it stands, though, I don't see (perhaps the media isn't telling me) Muslim leaders condemning their fellows for effigy-burning, bombing and incitement to violence. I do see the government funding projects that separate people, including separate faith schools, which I think is a terribly backward step. What got my back this time was reading about the heckling John Reid got. I'm all for politicians getting heckled, but here's what was said to him by Abu Izzadeen:
"How dare you come to a Muslim area when over 1,000 Muslims have been arrested?"
John Reid was later interrupted during a question and answer session by Anjem Choudary to tell the home secretary that Muslims did not need British values:
"We believe Islam is superior, we believe Islam will be implemented one day. It is very rich for you to come here and say we need to monitor our children when your government is murdering people in Iraq and Afghanistan."
Later on, one of the above explained is actions saying that he would not dicsuss these matters with a non-muslim. So it seems that these opinions assert:
- That there are areas in Britain where only Muslims should be allowed to go.
- That the number of muslims arrested has any bearing on the issue of whether people should blow themselves up and take others with them.
- That Islam is superior and that a move to overturn the liberal democracy we have in the UK is to be applauded.
- That British foreign policy absolves Muslim parents of any responsibility for their childrens' upbringing.
- That if you're not a Muslim, your opinion is worthless to a Muslim.
We're told that this is a minority view, Of course. We're told that these chaps don't represent mainstream Muslim opinion. So:
- Why isn't more being done or being seen to be done by the mainstream Muslims who want to live by our laws and by our cultural norms?
- Why does the media give people like Abu Izzadeen the spotlight and not the two women he told to "be quiet"after they tried to encourage dialogue?
- I know there are people out there who want to make this country an Islamic theocracy, but is all the attention they're getting all some sort of media conspiracy?
I don't really see what the problem was with John Reid's speech on its own, other than it stated the bleeding obvious. What he seems to have been asking for was that parents should raise their children to be tolerant and to resist those who would call on them to become terrorists. The simple reaction should have been, "Yes. That's how we bring up our children." The other point that he was making was that if you see a crime being committed or if you see someone premeditating a crime, you have an obligation to report this to the police. The simple reaction should have been, "Yes. That's morally right and it is the law of this country. We agree." The summary of the responses from the crowd in front of John Reid should have been: "And your point is?"
probably important to note that the comments put in the news are generally only the most inflammatory stuff, and anything even vaguely sensible doesnt have the punch to make newsbites. like with most things, the type of people who are angry and vocal and passionate enough to attend these events and make this type of noise, only represent a fractional subset. you wouldnt suggest that those crazy greenpeace guys who destroy the lives of people working at huntingdon life sciences, reflect or represent the wider group of people who care about the environment at some level like you or me - who would never make the news with our ‘normalish’ viewpoints. trick is to realise that even though it doesnt make the news, most muslims realise are perfectly pragmatic about the whole thing and have been voicing that feeling ever since day 1 of the blame game - only to very little airtime. i see minimal social value in this discussion - it is little more than an exercise in us vs them thinking.
Mostly fair points, “James”.
I’m criticising the opinions being aired. I’m also asking why this isn’t being debated properly. I’m coming at it from the secularist angle (opposed to religions in general), and also from the rationalist viewpoint (why do we have to run our lives through soundbites anyway, when life is more complicated than that)?
Your comment acknowledges and simultaneously overlooks the fact that I have asked why the moderates aren’t being heard through the press.
I’m not sure I’ve said anywhere that I care about the environment, though. I’m not sure that Greenpeace are threatening anyone at HLS anyway…
I see value in the discussion surrounding the big integration questions and also how the media is bounding the debate in quite a Chomskyan fashion.
Always nice to hear comments on my posts. Must post more!!
Hey Ciaran
The media has and always will attempt to polarise the debate for their own benefit. On 9/11 what was the main ‘reaction’ shown from muslim countries? Pictures of 5 or 6 people celebrating in the street were beamed around the globe as if to say that was how every muslim felt about it. And the flipside is true as well - fanatics will always shout loudest to get themselves onto the front pages.
More worrying is that people believe the stereotypes they see in the Daily Mail without thinking for themselves. Why do we get the impression most muslims want to change the UK into an Islamic state?
The vast majority of muslims would agree with you and me on these issues. But because they feel their faith / culture is being undermined, moderates will fight to defend their values and become increasingly isolated from mainstream society. Which is exactly what the extremists want.
BTW, I know your views on religion, but why do you think faith schools are such a bad idea? We don’t go around thinking Jewish or C of E schools are so awful. Most muslim children are educated in multi faith schools and that is always going to be the case. But why shouldn’t an islamic family have the same choices as anyone else? Or should our society become totally secular like France?
All the best
Tristan
Hi Tristan! Great to hear from you after such a long time!
Thanks for your comments - I quite agree that the effect of the media coverage appears to be to polarise moderates.
As for faith schools (of any variety - don’t think I’m against only Muslim ones!!) - I simply think that they undermine the attempts our country is making to get people to integrate. Children are most receptive to new ideas: the Jesuits famously said, “If you give me the boy at five, I’ll give you the man”. So the best way to grow out of intolerance of the “other” is to have children of different faiths mix.
In addition, I consider it rather ridiculous that these schools discriminate on the basis of religion, when:
A] We’re taught that this is a “Bad Thing” to do in general life and that people of different religions should just get along.
B] The government is quite happy to take taxes from people who have no religion, yet exclude them from schools where you must profess a religious belief to attend!